John Deere has chosen to be competitive in this throw away society, who can blame them, they are in business to make money. I do not believe they are trying to fool anyone with inferior product just filling a need. I have been looking at many small lawn tractors for some time, I have some rough ground hills, holes etc. Knowing what the big box products are all about I was prepared to get the from the dealer anyway.
After much valuable input from from the manager and techs I left with a Lx It just so happened to be a recent trade,in as new condition.
I will post from time to time to let you know if this was the right decision but after all the time with the people at the dealership I feel confident it was. Oh I and saved quite a bit of cash as well…. I have inspected screws, battery terminals, and other rust-proned spots on them and they do not look good. They will deliver a new one from the crate to you.
Update: I purchased the X JD three years ago and have logged 80 hours. I have had no problems with the mower. I purchased a snow blade last year and unfortunately, we did not receive enough snow to blade.
I will let you know how it pushes snow next spring. I would highly recommend buying the X or above or going with an older Deere.
Everyone trashes mtd. Yards are heavily treed so i mow twice a week in fall to bag leaves. For 5 yrs i used a blade to push N. Have replaced battery 3 times. Cables once. Has been stored outside with poly tarp since new garage is a machine shop. Now looking for a new tractor. I now can afford x but should I? After reading complete thread, any brand can have lemons, I could buy 3 of these to 1 of the JD x As for all who call MTD crap I disagree.
John Deere D burned to the ground in warranty, John Deere will not cover it said it was probably dirty. Appears to be a fire that started around the coil. Deere Rep said its my responsibility to prove the fire was their fault and I should not look to them but instead call my home owners insurance and put Big John Shaft claim in. Please do not buy these tractors and park them in your garage it just may kill your whole family! We had a John Deere LA big box store model and we only got hours 5 years out of the mower before the transmission started failing and the plastic cam gear was wearing.
Yes, I said plastic cam gear Briggs iTek motor. There is a huge different between the quality of materials between the two. The X series have serviceable grease fittings which highly extend service life.
The frame and deck are of much higher gauge steal. A John Deere X-series should easily last 15 years or hours before needing an engine overhaul. A LA series 5 years or hours seems to be the longevity of these. You decide, but the X series seems like a better deal in the long wrong. I have had my X for 3 years now and it has been flawless. I plan on keeping it for years. Have spent hours reading comments this site and others.
Seems to be 3 arguments: 1. Old design and better materials vs present low cost design 2. Quality and very little mention any site of reliability hours used for 1. Bias both camps. This was the first and last problem! Best of luck! Owning a JD was something I always looked forward to.
I went to the local dealership and purchased a model I assumed that because it was a JD that it was a lifetime investment, especially given the price. The TV commercial where the old man talks about handing down his JD mower to his grandson someday makes me laugh. X and up use the K58 which handles hills without breaking quite a bit better. Found out spec. Did all work myself. Yeah people look and see me running this classic mower.
I was thinking of going to a new JD rider. Very informative. Thanks to all for sharing and jarring some sense into me. This spring it will be 14 yrs old with hours. The 1 plus acres of lawn I have is hilly. It still runs like new,maybe because of regular maintenance,low hours, or just plain luck. Regular Maintenance: Since day 1 I have used full synthetic oil and replaced the oil filter every 25 hours or at the end of each season. In NY we have oxygenated gas with ethanol. I use high octane fuel and add stabilizer at the end of the season.
Air filters are changed annually. I grease all fittings twice a year. To date Big John Shaft changed the fuel filter twice and the spark plugs once. Last summer I replaced the battery for the 1st time because it would no longer hold a charge.
Tractor is always stored in shed when not in use. Cons: 1 I have had to replace 3 spindles because they did not have grease fitting.
Pros: 1 No transmission problems. I do haul lots of fire wood and wet mulch with a dump trailer. This is my first tractor so I have nothing to compare it to. Yes, John Deere makes much better lawn and garden tractors than the Scotts model I bought. The L has performed very well for my needs and has not disappointed me.
The total cost of ownership seems to have been reasonable over the years. All said, I hope that when it comes to replace my current lawn tractor,the next one will do as good a job.
I may be one of a few, but I am happy with my box store lawn tractor. I have an L riding mower that I purchased at HD 14 years ago. It still starts on the first try and I have had no issues with it other than replacing batteries and a seat that had to be replaced. I get it serviced from a John Deere dealer every 3 years. As someone else pointed out, it is not a fair comparison between the L series and the X or whatever it was.
Pull lawn sweeper. Sold the bagger. Kawasaki engine still runs like a champ. Replaced spindles, rebuilt carb, belts, changed oil and filter each year, cleaned air filter each year, replaced batteries, sharpened blades.
It looks like the Peerless transmission finally died. Have lawn service now, but like cutting the lawn. After reading these comments, I may put money into the How current are the complaints? Are newer models any better? I did not do my homework before I purchased this low end machine! I called many JD service people — they say their lots are fill with broken Ds with cheap transmission. There is talk of a class action law suit. Refurbishing my home I bought 3 Delta faucets from one of the box stores; bucks a piece.
Contractor installed one and it already had a leak. Drove to a licensed Delta faucet dealer and bought 3 faucets bucks apiece. They Big John Shaft me the differences from the one from HD and the one they sold me. True dealer item uses all brass; HD model was all plastic. Not only that dealer model is guaranteed lifetime. They still have had no issues. You do get what you pay for. I have a JD La for about 10 yrs. Had no problems with it at all.
I do clean and do maintenance on it faithfully every time I use it. I would just like to point out three things that were perhaps overlooked. I know that sometimes, you pay extra for brand name items.
Higher cost does not always mean to better. I would fully expect a John Deere media event would advocate for purchasing from a dealership. They would have a lot of angry dealers if they pushed the Big Box stores. If fact, we abuse the thing by hauling dirt, rock, tree rounds, etc… Have 2. Change the oil, keep it lubed, and tuned up. Maintenance goes along ways.
It is now June of and it is still a workhorse. This is a pretty darn good return of the original investment. Gee folks. I regularly changed the oil, changed the air and fuel filters, and greased the greased points as indicated by the owners manual.
The big box did not provide the manual nor a starter key which I had to buy from JD. I figured out the mower was wired for the hour meter but not installed, so I bought the hour meter from JD and installed it myself. Yes, I had to get a deck mount welded by a local welder, but only because I banged the mower deck into a tree stump and broke a mount. Runs great since the fix. With recent surgeries I now need a mower with power steering and have m eye on a X Anyone want a good running L to start out, hours, let me know.
NC oboat yahoo. Asked him about this exact subject because I heard the same thing. He almost laughed me out of the parking lot. The mowers at the big box stores may be entry level mowers but they ARE the exact same as the enter level mowers you get from the dealer. The notion is laughable. Who should I listen to? My local John Deere dealer or… some guy on the internet? The first year, all is good. The second year it requires some work on it. The third year, I was working on it more than I was mowing.
No engine problems, just inferior decks and engineering. Now to For the larger fields, I bought a JD last July. The Kawasaki 22 HP engine runs perfectly without burning oil. This machine has only one belt on the deck because the deck and transmission drive is shaft driven.
The last two mowers I got rid of were both cub cadet machines shaft drive because the decks rusted out! Of course they are not the same. Anyone with a brain cell should know that. Secondlytheir knowledge of fitting anyone with the right shaft is foreign to them. Find someone that knows something about fitting clubs. I have tried TOO many iron sets and fell prey, with my 85mph swing speed and age, 70, to the general admonishment that I needed Senior graphite.
Then recently while trying yet another set of irons, I was handed a set of Callaway Razr X in Uniflex. They went straight, and on the course they still went straight and felt great. I find this very interesting and would love to find a qualified club fitter. Dear fellow golfers. I am a very high handicapper type of player. I just regripped all my Iron clubs on regular graphite shafts.
Average After the regripping of my clubs I suddenly shot an All came in except one. I reshafted them myself except for my 4 iron. I put the same grips on from my other set that I shot a 88 with. My last shaft came in so I installed the 4 same way. Well, they go real high now! Man they feel very nice except for the 4 iron. The 4 iron is a DUD. It hurts my hands when I miss hit it.
Distance used to be and now at best is as far as my 6 iron when hit well. What and why is this like that? Do I need regular and not stiff for the 4i?
This seems like it is going to cost me to get it right. Any help is genuinely welcome. Pull it and have it spined. They all clanked. After aligning the bend point to the target, all the irons hit wonderfully with a sweet feel at impact.
Interesting that I hit these very flexible shafts normal distances 7iyds. I wanted to give you some advice, but thought better of it. Instead I will tell you what I would do. Take your 4 iron and wrap it in fish wrap and throw it in the garbage. My yd. With a smooth 6 iron type swing you will hit that 5 wood your distance may very all day.
The SOB is right, of that I am sure!!! Used woods are a dime a dozen and with your experience building clubs you can experiment all you want. Just as a for instance I made up a 20yo 13 Cleveland Launcher 3 wood mated it to a driver length Diamana flower band shaft. With a good turn that thing is a monster maybe yds. All you folks that are laughing lets keep things in context. To a lb. Cheers yeah…… I know this thread is over a year old, I just felt like talking……………. The article really rings true.
I live in a rural area and they never seem close to my location. It seems like a shaft that fit you would work fairly well on whatever set of top line clubs you might play and it would be worth changing out all your shafts to get the right ones in all of your clubs. At a GolfSmith launch monitor I was hitting an extra stiff fujikara about 20 yards longer than a stiff and regular shaft, my clubhead speed is barelygo figure.
With the extra stiff you can actually feel the ball compressing. Great info. Just wondering how you get a difference of 22 yds for the big hitter. Trevor, In my experience, good fitters will talk with you and not at you. Too many box store fitters will have you hit 2 clubs and tell you what you want. Also, they will most likely have you come in for a follow-up appointment for any tweaks that need to be done. A legit fitter will fit your game, as opposed to someone that has too many of one brand on the shelf.
This study is a good start but it is incomplete. The data needs to be correlated to the exact club face location that impacted the ball. Just a little variance from the center of the sweet spot results in significant loss of distance. There are 8 off center locations. To be accurate the study needs to include this date. I have an old set of irons that I think has the right flex for my game.
Is there any way to determine the flex stiffness and kick point of the existing shafts and then be able to compare that to new clubs in order to find something comparable? I am glad I read this thread. I borrowed a driver playing a scramble. It was an 8. I am playing a Conventional wisdom would say that no way this Big John Shaft would work.
Holy cow did it ever. No kidding, I got 25 to 30 more yards. That really confused the heck out of me. Good job, guys. Scientific research has shown that the difference in clubhead delivery and resulting ball flight within a wide range of shaft flexes is very small.
I read your write up last weekend and decided to use the info when I went in to get fit for a new big stick today. Just a little about me, I am a 15 handicap who has been playing for a little over a year. I have been fit multiple times and have only once been fit with a S Flex shaft as every other fitting has resulted in an R fitting.
Fast forward to today and I go in for my fitting not expecting anything out of the ordinary. I bring in my D2 for comparison to whatever the fitter throws at me out of this years new offerings.
Just the same old thing. The fitter almost laughed in my face pointing out my 96 mph swing speed was nowhere near enough to support that stout of a shaft. He said the only problem was that the X Flex they got Big John Shaft a 7.
What ensued was 15 minutes of ball striking that left both of us with our mouths open. With the same swing speed 96mph I was hitting an X Flex 7. My backspin average went from a rpm average to rpm with almost no side spin. I had increased my distances yards while increasing my accuracy 9 yards from center.
The fitter was literally shocked saying that nothing would have ever made him hand me an X Flex unless I had asked him for it and that it would totally change the way he looked at fittings from now on. Thank you so much for sharing your story. This is exactly why we do what we do. In the old days my days we used to think that on a solid and reprsentative swing, a shaft steel that was too stiff flex and torque would send the ball high left and low right.
Similarly, a too weak shaft again,flex and torque would send the ball high right and low left. If there is a clubfitter on this website, can shaft flex and torque affect fats and thins on full shots?
Great work guys! But your readers may also benefit by knowing 2 more important I think through my research factors regarding shaft flex. You guys agree? Thanks for the comment. It certainly seems valuable, but seems can mean nothing. They use a device called the FitChip which measures the timing of how the shaft loads and unloads during the swing.
Since installing their shaft in my TaylorMade R9, I have never hit the ball longer or straighter. Conventional wisdom would NEVER put someone with my swing speed in such a stiff shaft, but all I can say is that it works. It also explains the results that were obtained during these tests quite nicely, FWIW. Very good too know I am glad I read this before I spent that kind of money on an extra stiff shafted driver. My handicap is 3 so I strike the ball solid.
At a demo last year, I told the Mizuno rep my swing speed and handicap and he put a shaft in the iron and handed it to me. I knew that was probably a mistake, but I hit it anyway and really liked the shaft and the way it hit. After reading this, I suspect I liked it because it reduced my tendency to hook. I hit the sweetest little draw with the X But this raises another question. Since we are all so conditioned to believe we should be fit by swing speed, how do we accept and purchase a club or set of clubs with a shaft flex that is clearly not a standard fit.
In my case, why would a 65 year old guy who can only expect to lose swing speed, purchase x irons even if I hit them better when I demo them? At the demo after hitting both shafts, I asked the rep why I liked the X better. The 65, 75 all have slightly different specs to them… The torque is a 4. I am not trying to say the numbers were collected wrong more that it is interesting that the X-Stiff had more spin for some players then the Stiff or Regular… Make me question the design of the shaft more then the numbers provided is all….
The interesting thing is that the target audience is weekend hackers when we are on a golf site the reviews equipment and a golf forum that normally only avid golfers would frequent looking for answers to questions and to learn more about the game and equipment available. How many times around here have we harped on getting fit, why on earth would the target audience ever be the uneducated and then to not educate them on something like shaft fitting is almost a crime.
The tips section is too weak on all the shafts regardless of label from the spin numbers, with no launch angle numbers and side spin no way to really get an idea of what the profile actually is without looking up the brand of shaft, since they are blacked out and really no exact model given until I started prying around in my comments. I can give you a Regular flex shaft with a supper stiff tip that will preform well in a higher swing speed. I can give you a X-Stiff shaft with a weak tip designed to get the ball in the air and a higher swing speed will balloon the shot and struggle.
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Namespaces Article Talk. Views Read Edit View history. Help Learn to edit Community portal Recent changes Upload file. Download as PDF Printable version. Richard Roundtree as Shaft in Richard Roundtree. Private investigator. Shaft's Big Score! Kick Point Kick point is essentially another way to talk about the difference in tip stiffness and butt stiffness in a shaft.
Torque Of all the characteristics that can describe a shaft, torque is the one I receive the most questions about. Is Shaft Fitting important? All Flex codes are not created equal In previous articles on iron and driver fitting, I discussed the reality that the flex codes labeled on a shaft e. Flex New Model? Might need a new shaft. Figure 2: Effect of Shaft Overall Stiffness on Club Head Delivery All this shows that players may alter the way they swing a driver based on the feel and feedback they receive from the shaft.
Choosing a Shaft So, with all this information on shafts, how does one begin to understand what type of shaft might be best for them? Figure 3: Shaft Visualization Chart Let me talk through an example of what it might look like to understand where you would find yourself on a chart like this. Club Head Speed: We typically would Big John Shaft with club head speed CHS to try and understand a general region of flex that may work best.
So someone with a driver CHS around mph on average would do best with a shaft having a flex value around 3. Figure 4: Shaft Visualization Chart with Example Regions Loading: The initial part of the downswing plays a fairly big role in the stiffness profile that is optimal for a given player.
Players who exert concentrated, high levels of force and torque during this phase of the downswing typically do better with a shaft that plays a bit stiffer than CHS alone would suggest.
Conversely, players who are a bit more gradual in their loading of the shaft typically get along with shafts that are a bit softer. This would shift the region upwards and to the right to region B on figure 4. Handle Lean at Impact: The last of the three parameters that we use to determine the appropriate region on the shaft visualization chart is the position of the hands at impact. Looking at a general handle location can influence whether shafts with higher or lower trajectory numbers will perform best for a particular player.
If we look at our example player and realize he is someone who generally delivers the driver with a lot of forward shaft lean, the region of shafts that would most likely perform best would move upward, into region C on figure 4. Table 1: Ball Flight Data From Shaft Fitting The resulting differences can not only be attributed to the way the shaft was bending, but the way the player was responding to the shaft.
Figure 6: Impact Heat Map Comparison of Shaft A to Shaft B In one particular instance, one of our staff players was trying to understand and validate some of the things he was feeling when comparing two different iron shafts.
Summary The study of how shafts influence the delivery of the club head and the way they can elicit different responses from a player is complex. Your Name. Email Address. Want MyGolfSpy's email newsletter? Mizuno T22 Wedge Sep 13, 6 Comments. Top U. Aaron 8 months ago. Gerry 3 years ago. Bryan Beem 5 years ago. William D Cox IV 5 years ago. Hell yes it does… It is one of the most common mistakes in golf.
Ryan Tracy 5 years ago. Thomas Aulik 5 years ago. Greg Marcus 5 years ago. Benjamin Lee 5 years ago. The shaft-head combo is extremely important to optimizing ball flight. Kenny Stammen 5 years ago. David Moore 5 years ago. Brett Frimmer 5 years ago. Troy Vayanos 5 years ago. Great post Erik, I just recently upgraded to new clubs and got regular flex shafts put in instead of the stiff shafts I had before. Joseph Loukota 5 years ago.
Geo Golfx 5 years ago. Neal 5 years ago. Thanks for an interesting article. Helpful and informative. Bob Pegram 5 years ago. Dino Datu 5 years ago. Mike 5 years ago. Joe Golfer 5 years ago. Tony Covey 5 years ago.
Keith 3 years ago. Chuck Ludwig 5 years ago. Thomas 5 years ago. Sean Cartwright 5 years ago. Rob Mcdonald 5 years ago. Todd Bailey 5 years ago. Alex Paoloni 5 years ago. Chris Embardino 5 years ago. Todd McKinnon 5 years ago. Teletext 5 years ago. Erik 5 years ago. Dan Sueltz 5 years ago. Andrew 5 years ago.
I love these articles and discussions, keep them coming, MGS! Alan N 5 years ago. Chad Mardesen 5 years ago. The Nak 5 years ago. Walt Take a look a bowling ball drilling layouts. Physics my man. Skip 5 years ago. Fozcycle 5 years ago.
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